On Palestinian Cinema: An Interview with Film Director Najwa Najjar

[Najwa Najjar] [Najwa Najjar]

On Palestinian Cinema: An Interview with Film Director Najwa Najjar

By : Isis Nusair

Najwa Najjar is a Palestinian filmmaker based in the Palestinian Occupied Territories. She has worked in both documentary and fiction. Her debut film was the feature  Pomegranates and Myrrh (2009), and her second feature is. Eyes of a Thief (2014). The latter was selected as the Palestinian entry for the Best Foreign Language Film at the 87th Academy Awards. This interview with Najjar was conducted following the recent release of Eyes of a Thief in the United States.

Isis Nusair (IN): How did you start making movies?

Najwa Najjar (NN): Cinema has always been part of my life in different ways.  I was always an avid reader, lived in a house with music, storytelling and art—and when I was around ten years old my father gave me his camera and taught me how to frame, and capture images.  At an older age during my studies in the United States I was always irritated with the way Arabs and/or Palestinians were portrayed in the media and everywhere—so instead of just being annoyed, I decided to do something about it.  That`s when I did my graduate work in cinema.  

IN: What did you want to communicate through the making of your recent film, Eyes of A Thief?

NN: I suppose living in a No Man`s Land between Ramallah and Jerusalem, and seeing every peace process—and hope for that matter—whither away, I wanted to question what happens when reason and hope diminishes, apathy increases, and consciousness almost goes extinct. Will people’s will to resist and survive also diminish? What options lie in store? These questions are not only relevant to Palestine but to the whole region.

For decades the discourse on resistance and survival in the Arab world has been misrepresented and oversimplified, creating an askew discussion. For far too long, this side of the story has been told by others overlooking the Arab perspectives and the people involved.

[Image of director with girl actress from Eyes of a Thief]

The consequence has been to simplify the discourse, to reduce conflicts in the region to sectarian, Muslim vs. Jews, and/or Muslims vs. the “West.” Furthermore, after 11 September 2001 it became very easy to demonize and dehumanize all Muslims, as well as Arabs, worldwide. Equally important, the reaction to this demonization in many parts of the Arab world has often been to target minorities, Christians in particular, living in the region for centuries. They have wrongly become associated with the Christians in the West, with no ties to the East where Christianity was born. 

Perhaps it is an attempt at the preservation of historic diversity and the role that minorities have played and continue to play as part and parcel [of the region]. In addition, it is also an attempt to contribute albeit in any way to change in the region. The film also highlights the need to represent the region in ways that challenge its reductive portrayal in the mainstream media, end the warped hegemony of partial and/or inaccurate narratives, and change perceptions and images from the region defined and dominated by misconceived convictions and/or distorted television stereotypes.

IN: Is that message different from that of Pomegranates and Myrrh?

NN: In retrospect, it seems that different means of resistance and survival seem to be an obsession of mine by default.    

The idea for Pomegranates and Myrrh started with the beginning of the second Palestinian intifada. Witnessing the daily violence, humiliation, grinding poverty, curfews, movement controls, assassination attempts, and the tit-for-tat suicide bombings almost broke my spirit and soul, and my faith in humanity. 
I needed to find a way to survive, to find hope in what seemed to be a hopeless situation, to breathe again despite the suffocating weight of frustration.  Yet in this search I was also confronted with barriers internal to Palestinian society—those, which can hinder individual development, dreams, and aspirations but none as challenging as those which force people to turn to lose themselves when despair, uncertainty, and loss prevail. 

The daily barrage of stereotypes broadcasted on television stations worldwide tired me. I wanted a Palestinian story. A story different to what the world was used to seeing–simply a story of Palestinians trying to live ordinary lives under extraordinary circumstances, which has been (and continues to be) overlooked. Pomegranates and Myrrh is in some ways a prediction of how a worsening political climate—and the consequent lack of hope, can directly affect the Palestinian daily life—pushing the society to further isolate itself and the individual to regress into conservative traditionalism and religion if there is no hope, determination—a continuation for life.  

\"\"

[Hiam Abbass in Pomogranates and Myrrh]

It was my hope that this story—told through the story of a woman, a love story, a story of dance and music, incorporating the events both internally and externally will evoke similar emotions and feelings in anyone confronting barriers blocking the achievement of his or her ambitions and dreams. At the same, human stories not distorted by the news and stereotypes will not only present an alternative picture, but will ultimately deepen the understanding of the present Palestinian story—transcending the barriers of culture and language.

IN: Is there a distinct Palestinian cinema?  

NN: For far too long the Palestinian story has been told be everyone but Palestinians.  In the past thirty years or so Palestinians writers and directors started writing their own stories, filming on location in their land and using other Palestinians actors and actresses.  Often crews were brought from outside Palestine as there was not enough skilled cinema crew in the country.  More recently upon several directors’ insistence on training crew alongside experienced crew from abroad—many more trained crew members can be found - so stories are now also being made by Palestinians.

IN: How does the social and the political intersect in the content and aesthetics of making both your documentary and fiction films? 

NN: They are all related.  There is no politics without the social dimension, and the social dimension is inherently linked to the political.  There`s no way out at this time separating the content and the aesthetics. 

IN: Does being a woman film director make a difference in the films you make? 

NN: I`ve never seen myself as a woman filmmaker—just as a filmmaker.

IN: Do you plan to continue making both documentary and fiction films? 

NN: I do love both mediums - documentary and film.  Making my first documentary, Naim and Wadee’a, was crucial in launching my career not because it was successful worldwide, but because it gave me a real understanding of what is needed in cinema which talks to audiences on another level.  Unfortunately, often documentaries are associated with news reports.  There is a lot which can be captured when stories, footage, music are used in a non-traditional manner.  Having said that—my passion remains with fiction.  I do love stories in which I have creative control, and then having the characters living inside the story on my laptop come alive when taken on by actors and actresses.  



[Image of Khaled Abol Naga with two children,
 Malak Erimeleh and Amir Kort, from Eyes of a Thief.]

IN: Let us talk about the reception of Eyes of a Thief.

Strange film this one is - while some programmers (In Europe) are hesitant - - audiences are flocking to the film in great numbers. We are literally sold out everywhere the film is screened.  Contrary to all my expectations the film has been accepted with open arms in the East, South and even the United States. I just came back from Palm Springs where additional theatres needed to accommodate all the people who wanted to see the film.    

In light of what is going on in France (and all of Europe for that matter)  - you would have thought there was a needed urgency for films like Eyes of a Thief especially in Europe, stories to start discussions and bring new understandings in the hopes that dialogue, new images, and cinema can help bridge what is becoming a widening gap in cultures and discourse.  Maybe cinema can do something where politics has failed.

IN: Has this reception been different from your other films? 

NN: I think with Pomegranates and Myrrh - this narrative fits more with what the West or rather Europe likes to see in terms of Palestinian narrative as it deals with the wife of a prisoner trying to survive under Israeli occupation. The West I believe is willing to say we are occupied and allows us to resist in the manner they see fit—non violently which was the core of Pomegranates and Myrrh. However, other forms of resistance on the screen, I think, make them nervous—though it is our unfortunate reality.
 \"\"

[Suad Massi in Eyes of A Thief]

IN: The funding for the film has been Arab and European and the main two actors are from Egypt and Algeria/France. Are you trying to reach a wider regional and transnational audience through the funding and selection of the main actors? 

NN: With regards to casting I was looking for the best fit for the roles.  Both Khaled Abol Naga and Souad Massi are friends.  I never thought that I would be able to get permission for Khaled to come into the country. Getting him permission was a near miracle.  I had spoken to him about a small role (Father Naim) and he was so enthusiastic and showed a genuine love for Palestine and wanting to come to the country, and add to that his stand on the Egyptian revolution—I found a guy who didn`t have to act like a revolutionary but was one.  

And Souad Massi had never acted.  I wanted her for my first film, Pomegranate and Myrrh.  There`s a spirit about her that I appreciate; a vulnerability. Again, I don`t ask for "acting" but more searching inside yourself and being.   

I did not consider them to appeal to the Arab Hollywood, but if it does—then all the better.  However, it is/was important to me to have the "Arab" World in a Palestinian film.  By bringing in an Algerian and an Egyptian for the first time in Palestinian cinematic history, we were able to break the barriers that have been enforced on us, isolating not only us, but more recently the Palestinian issue.  In a story about resistance with actors from the Arab World—maybe we brought the Palestinian issue back to the center of the Arab world.  

This is also the importance of having funding from around the Arab World - it shows support and solidarity.  Internally, we also try to break our own barriers by bringing in cast and crew from inside the forty-eight line, Gaza, Jerusalem, throughout the West Bank - it`s a logistic nightmare with orange, blue and green ID cards and maneuvering around one of six hundred plus checkpoints, but one we believe is necessary to remain united.

  • ALSO BY THIS AUTHOR

    • Dystopian and Alternate Realities: An Interview with Lyd filmmakers, Sarah Ema Friedland and Rami Younis

      Dystopian and Alternate Realities: An Interview with Lyd filmmakers, Sarah Ema Friedland and Rami Younis

      As an American Jew, we are literally taught an alternate reality, taught an alternate history. The Zionist project of creating the state of Israel is a world building project. The reality we live in is like science fiction, and that surrealness was one of the biggest inspirations for the science fiction elements of the film. To build a nation, you need to create a mythology. The mythology of the state of Israel that we all are taught and kind of brainwashed with is what sustains the occupation. It is so deep. We already talked about changing names on streets and calling Lyd Lod.

    • Obscurity and a Drop of Hope: Interview with Syrian Filmmaker, Soudade Kaadan

      Obscurity and a Drop of Hope: Interview with Syrian Filmmaker, Soudade Kaadan

      This interview was conducted with Syrian filmmaker Soudade Kaadan following the release of her recent films, Aziza (2019), The Day I Lost My Shadow (2018), and Obscure (2017). The Day I Lost my Shadow won in 2018 the Lion of the Future - “Luigi De Laurentiis” Venice Award for a Debut Film.

    • عتمة وبعض من الأمل: مقابلة مع المخرجة السورية سؤدد كعدان

      عتمة وبعض من الأمل: مقابلة مع المخرجة السورية سؤدد كعدان

      أجري هذا اللقاء عقب عرض أفلام المخرجة السورية سؤدد كعدان التي تضمنت «عزيزة» (٢٠١٩)، «يوم أضعت ظلي» (٢٠١٨) و«عتمة» (٢٠١٧). حصل فيلم «يوم أضعت ظلي» على جائزة «أسد المستقبل» لأول عمل روائي في مهرجان فينيسيا للأفلام.

Video Channeling: Mai Elwakil in Conversation with Daniella Rose King

Medrar.TV is a Cairo-based YouTube channel presenting digital content that documents contemporary visual art, sound and music events, exhibitions, talks, performances, and interviews across Egypt and the Arabic-speaking world. In the interview that follows, Medrar.TV`s co-founder and writer Mai Elwakil talks about the beginnings of Medrar.TV, the technological changes made to accommodate broader audiences, and the founders` vision for enabling critical discussions and access to a plethora of contemporary cultural production. From its early documentary-style videos of Indicated by Signs, Cairene curator and now gallerist Aleya Hamza`s book launch at the Goethe Institute in Cairo in 2010, to Sherif El Azma`s Video By the Kilo filmmaking workshop at Alexandria Contemporary Arts Forum in 2011, and the multi-venue retrospective exhibition Basiony 1978-2011 curated by artist Shady El Noshokaty in 2012, Elwakil explains the impulse behind Medrar.TV`s drive to document, archive, animate, and disseminate cultural information and documentation via an online platform.

Daniella Rose King (DRK): Why and how did Medrar.TV come about?

Mai Elwakil (ME): Medrar.TV became fully operational in January 2013; that is when we received a grant from the Arab Digital Expression Foundation (ADEF) to buy proper filming and recording equipment and to pay our very small team of videographers and editors. But the project operated on a much smaller scale years before that. Our physical archive includes footage of exhibitions, talks, workshops, and interviews that date as far back as 2005.

For instance, Medrar.TV co-founder, artist Mohamed Allam, documented the 2005 Form Through Light exhibition at the Palace of the Arts in Cairo. The footage shows the artworks as well as the artists installing them, and includes interviews where they talk about their interests. He did this with his personal camcorder because he was interested in discussing the artwork with fellow artists taking part in the exhibition. Medrar.TV did not exist at the time. But the interest in documenting works by contemporary artists was already there.

Allam did the same with other shows and performances, and in 2010 while on residency in Beirut, he devoted his three months there to meet with practicing artists, performers, and musicians such as Raed Yassin, Gheith Al-Amine, Zeid Hamdan, Marwa Arsanios, and Tarek Atoui. He introduced himself then as Medrar.TV, although the channel hadn`t been launched. It was very informal. The meeting with Atoui for instance happened at a coffee shop.

Later in 2010, I met with Allam and he mentioned the project. I was immediately intrigued by the idea, as I often faced difficulties in finding information about art shows or events I had missed in Egypt and the wider region. What I could locate was often no more than a flyer or news clippings in English locked in the archives of art institutions. You had to contact each institution and explain who you are and what you are doing so that they would allow you in, and in many cases you`d be mostly trying to form an impression of the artwork based on the texts and flyers you found. For a general public, it`s even more difficult, especially if one doesn`t read English. Of course, things have changed a lot, with more artists and institutions trying to document their work and post it on social media or websites now. But that`s quite a recent development.

DRK: Why in the form of a video channel? What is it about the medium? And have you considered utilizing other forms, for example radio, literature, or even a program?

ME: Medrar started as an artist collective. And I am essentially an art writer. We both realized the lack of critique in the local art scene at the time. But we also wanted to take a step back and focus on documentation. How could you encourage critique and research if the documentary basis you needed didn`t exist? So we decided to focus on that. And because we are interested in contemporary art--much of which is time-based and involves moving images, live performances and interactive art--we felt that video would be the most suitable medium. We felt that video documentation would be the most faithful to the work, and equally important, it would be the most accessible.

Through the videos, we try to show the actual work before it is framed with curatorial and interpretative texts so as to allow people to make up their own minds about it. Then they get to learn more about the artists` or curators` perspectives. We also felt that artists and the general public might be more inclined to watch a video and listen to someone talk about their interests and how they work rather than read a text about it. Our experience shows that you`d have to be really interested in the topic to spend time reading up on it. For the same reasons, we decided to move the channel from Vimeo to YouTube in 2012. We felt that, particularly in Egypt, people mostly watch YouTube and hence have a higher chance of stumbling upon the videos than in the case of Vimeo. We wanted to engage more people with the scene and allow them to see works that they might not have known about given the focus of mass media on mainstream and commercial art production.

As for your question about incorporating non-documentary forms into the channel, we had several thoughts on that. When we first started editing the videos, we wanted them to have an artistic edge–-to lie somewhere between documentary and video art. But then we felt that we were interfering too much with the artwork we were meant to document. Plus, Medrar, the artist institution under which the TV channel operates, does have an ongoing program of art events and workshops.

DRK: What do you know about your audiences? Who are they, where are they located? 

ME: Our first target group is the art community: artists, curators, historians, researchers, and art students. We`re also trying to gradually reach out to a broader audience and to a more general public. The art community, especially in Egypt, is following us closely. So far, the feedback we`ve been getting shows that it sees the channel as a valuable resource on the scene.

When we first started working, many artists would decline doing an interview as they were not comfortable being filmed and also because they were not sure in what context, shape, or form they and their work would be presented. But this has changed and now artists and institutions contact us to come and document their projects. We think that we have managed to gain their trust; when they watched the edited videos of their work and that of others, they felt that it makes sense to present their work side by side with that of others in Egypt and around the Arab world. It helps draw an understanding of diverse scenes and practices.

We also have a strong following in Lebanon and Tunisia, places where we`ve filmed before. And of course, there are some followers from Palestine, UAE, Jordan, Morocco, and Saudi Arabia. Since we started adding subtitles to the videos in early 2013, more people are following us from Europe, the United States, and Southeast Asia. But for now, the majority is from Egypt, which is still very exciting. And perhaps some of the most rewarding responses are those which we get from people outside the art community; people we meet in social gatherings who, when we mention the channel, respond that they`ve watched our material, and they cite specific videos that have interested them. That means that we`re gradually making a breakthrough to a broader audience base.

DRK: A question on language. Much of the content is in Arabic, with some videos subtitled in English. How pressing a demand is subtitling or translating to Medrar.TV? And further to this, why translate?

ME: The main goal of the channel is to create a resource in Arabic. When we started working on the project, most of the information provided in exhibitions and performances was in English. The Arabic translation of curatorial and wall texts when it existed was more of an add-on, something made out of courtesy of being present in Cairo, where the vast majority of the population does not speak or read English. Even now, it is quite difficult to find specialized texts written or translated into Arabic.

Having the material in Arabic was important for accessibility and for making art-related terms in Arabic more common and familiar. Translators and writers are often faced with the challenge of finding an accurate equivalent to English art terminology, which is taken for granted all over the world. A few years back, curators were still debating how to describe their titles in Arabic. Of the various suggestions at the time were: monazem (organizer), modeer ma`ared (exhibition manager) and the like; the most commonly used one now is kayem (curator, or keeper), which outside the art world would not mean much. Now things are gradually changing with more people interested in writing and producing works in Arabic, although we have to admit that much of the terminology still sounds somewhat alien.

The decision to start adding English subtitles was for different reasons. Whereas we document a range of works, we have a special interest in experimental initiatives and early- to mid-career artists who might be overlooked by other media outlets, so we decided to add the English subtitles to make the archive accessible to people elsewhere who might not have a chance to learn about these works, artists, and institutions. Now all videos, except the first eleven posted on the channel, are subtitled into English.

DRK: What is the channel`s editorial policy in regard to deciding on which events, exhibitions, and projects will be featured? And further, is there an editorial position that Medrar.TV takes? Is Medrar.TV concerned with archiving, collecting, documenting, positioning, and/or critique and analysis?

ME: To be honest, we are a very small team. We consult with one another on events and decide what to cover based on a perceived level of experimentation in the artwork, project, or initiative. And we use the term artwork broadly to include experiments with sound, music, performance, video, and film as well as the more common practices contained within the definition of the visual arts. We have a special interest in early- to mid-career artists who might not be in the spotlight. But we also cover established artists.

DRK: Can you elaborate on this idea of the “perceived level of experimentation”?

ME: This “perceived level of experimentation” might seem subjective and difficult to outline in terms of clear criteria. But what we can say is that we try to focus on artists and practices that are not very conventional and which we believe are important to document in the long run. We do not necessarily endorse or express an opinion on the final artwork. But we still think that the process and/or artist`s perspective is worth highlighting. For instance we`ve documented and interviewed artists in 2010 and again in 2013. We think it`s interesting and important to see how their work might have developed over time.

We are now moving more towards producing mini-profiles of artists and institutions where they`d get a chance to discuss their work over time, as well as their interests. We think it could help draw a more nuanced portrait of who they are. And we`ve started working on artist-to-artist series where we invite guest contributors to interview an artist when we feel this could lead to interesting discussions. This also gives more room for analysis and critique.

However, these new series will not replace the regular documentation, which we still value a lot. But it`s another dimension that we think might enrich the experience of people who follow the channel and go through the archive.

DRK: Are there any future plans for Medrar.TV?

ME: One goal we`ve had since we started and are gradually working on is to find ways to post the complete interviews online as a searchable archive for those interested because we`re limited on YouTube with viewers` relatively short concentration spans. So we`d like to have concise videos on YouTube, but also offer those interested access to the entire archive. Like we mentioned, we`ve started the artist-to-artist series, and of course we`d like to expand and be able to cover events and artists in other parts of the Arab world more regularly and form partnerships with initiatives or individuals sharing our interests abroad or even in Egypt. But perhaps the most basic and practical goal for us is to continue the project and make it sustainable in the long run because in addition to the individual videos, there`s great value to the growing online archive as a whole. Unfortunately, free online platforms face many challenges on that front, particularly in the region. But that`s a whole other discussion.

DRK: Can you talk about these general difficulties, as you perceive them, and do you see improvements being made in this regard?

ME: Most experimental publications and publishers now opt for building and using online platforms over printed materials, the reasons for which include: overcoming large bureaucratic and financial costs required in Egypt for setting up printed publications, avoiding possible censorship as online platforms continue to receive less attention from censors. But also the target readers and viewers of most of these platforms are under the age of forty-five. This target group has become less inclined to purchase printed magazines and newspapers and rely on social media networks such as Facebook and Twitter to find the content they`re interested in whether by directly following the platforms` pages or through recommendations by friends and acquaintances on social media.

Online publishing platforms and projects do, however, face challenges such as the short concentration span of Internet and social media users in Egypt, who are flooded with hundreds of feeds every hour, which requires well-thought targeting plans to stand out. Another major challenge faced by most platforms is devising financially sustainable models, particularly since non-profit and experimental projects are cornered between limited advertising opportunities online and major sponsorships that could compromise a project`s editorial independence.

DRK: You have produced a project for Ibraaz as part of Platform 007 – how does this project reflect both the issues Medrar.TV has faced, and the many approaches it is exploring?

ME: Our response to Ibraaz`s Platform 007 on building art infrastructure and audience cultivation is a profile of Hashem L Kelesh. This Egyptian artist and musician is in his late twenties and has been using online technologies for the production and dissemination of most of his work. In his interview with Medrar.TV, he reflects on the local context in which artists operate, be it exhibition opportunities or art education systems. It is one of the first in-depth interviews we are publishing and seems highly relevant to the topic, but also to the work of Medrar.TV as an online arts channel.

Editor’s note: This interview was commissioned by Ibraaz as part of Platform 007, and was originally published in May 2014 at the following link: www.ibraaz.org/interviews/129. The interview is accompanied by a specially commissioned Ibraaz project by Medrar.TV, viewable here: www.ibraaz.org/projects/75.